First encounters

In conversation with FRANCES O'ROURKE

FRANCES FITZGERALD

is the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. She worked as a social worker in London and Dublin, going into politics after chairing the National Women's Council in the late 1980s. She was elected for Dublin Mid-West in the 2011 election. She is married to Michael Fitzgerald and has three adult sons

'KATHLEEN AND I MET in London in our first few days in LSE [London School of Economics], where we were both studying social work, doing our MScs. We'd both been in UCD but didn't know each other, and both of us had worked in London as social workers. We just connected, and it's a connection that's lasted right through the years. It was 1977, we were both married, both in our mid-20s.

“Going to London for both of us was so outside the box: the LSE opened up a whole world to me, and my seven years in London influenced me profoundly, gave me an awareness of people doing things very differently, a respect for different values.

“What attracted me to Kathleen was her gaiety; I always think of her as being bohemian, creative. The thing that really got us going as friends was that Kathleen had her first baby, Cormac, and that was a huge part of my life: she was my only close Irish friend in London.

“We both came back to Ireland in the early 1980s. I do remember Kathleen saying, ‘Will I stay with social work or go with the music?’ It was a no brainer: she was so talented. It’s part of her creativity – and all her children are extremely creative, too. I’ve a huge interest in the arts, and my son Mark is an actor.

“Kathleen always brought Galway alive for us on holidays; we’ve had great round-the-tables and picnics, a lot of sharing of family events. When we get together, we talk about everything except our careers, although I’m always excited to hear what she’s doing.

“I didn’t work for a number of years when the children were young, then worked part-time as a social worker. I think I was the first person who got job-sharing in the Mater. I never think combining work and family life is easy: you need lots of support to do it.

“I was born in Limerick, but both my parents were from Cork; my father, Tadhg Ryan, hurled with Christy Ring. I lived in Dublin from my early teens; went to Sion Hill in Blackrock. I was 42 when I went into politics. I didn’t start off expecting to be a minister: getting elected is hard enough.

“I’m proud we’ve brought in a 30 per cent gender quota: it’s the only hope to get more women into politics. I do want to see a critical mass of women in politics.

“I hope there’s no complacency about the children’s rights referendum, and that people will come out to vote: it’s a great opportunity to give a strong endorsement to a value about protecting children.”

KATHLEEN LOUGHNANE

is a harpist who founded the music group Dordan, which plays a mix of Irish and Baroque music. She is an authority on 17th- and 18th- century Irish harp composers and author of several books. A former social worker, she lives in Galway with her husband Cormac and has three adult children, a daughter and two sons

‘I STUDIED SOCIAL WORK, went to Australia for a year after UCD, then did my teaching diploma in Froebel in Blackrock and taught for two years in Tallaght. Tallaght was just beginning; it was fascinating. There were 48 in my class in my first year, 50 in my second. There were huge social problems. Then I went to London.

“When Frances and I met in LSE, what struck me about her was her buoyancy, that I still see in her every time we meet. That and her great smile, her ability to connect.

“It was hugely important to me having Frances as a friend in London when I had my first baby: I was away from my family; my mother was dead.

“The bonds that you establish with friends from that very vulnerable period are so important. I was first in to see Frances when she had her first son, Owen, who was also born in London.

“My second child was born in London, too. There was a critical time when we had to decide whether or not we were staying in London: we moved when the children were still young.

“I’m originally from Nenagh, Co Tipperary, but moved to Galway when we came back to Ireland. My husband’s a lecturer in structural engineering in NUIG. Frances had been working in the adoption area at the time, and she recommended me to an adoption agency in the west for whom I then worked.

“I had started playing music again: there’s music in my father’s family and I played piano and harp. Galway in 1982 was hopping: Dé Dannan were in full flight; Sharon Shannon came up as a youngster of 17 or 18 . . .

“I remember dancing around the kitchen with one of my kids to a jig Máirtín O’Connor was playing, on one of his early albums. I thought, I must do something. So I kept the harp in the kitchen when the kids were small.

“Eventually I couldn’t continue in the adoption work, left my pension rights behind me and founded Dordan in 1990. I’ve performed for several heads of state, like Nelson Mandela and Bill Clinton, and accompanied Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese on state visits.

“When Frances told me she was going into politics, I thought she was crazy. My idea of politics is that it’s an extraordinarily difficult life, and she was courageous to even think about it. I knew she would make a success whatever she did and would give it her all. We never talk politics – the only thing I do is I’ll ring her up if I’ve heard her doing an interview; I’d be very supportive of her. I wasn’t at all surprised when she was made a minister.”